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A Club pre-empt question - IMPs

#1 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2019-June-24, 23:31

Hi all

I would be interested in people's thoughts on opening with this kind of hand (IMPs)

I chose 3C, ended up with 4S+1 by East, not a bad score but 4C-2 or 5C-3 scored much better

I also considered opening 1C but thought it was too misleading, despite the number of tricks

My chosen (Pavlicek et al ) guidelines for pre-empts are overbid 2 tricks at unfav vul, 3 tricks at equal vul and 4 tricks at fav vul

In this case I reckoned I had 6 tricks (+3 for equal vul) -> 3C

However I noticed a range of opening bids including also 1C (which I had considered), 5C etc.

What are the best options plus if my opening bid was ok should I just keep competing to 5. How do you decide when to stop given no support comes from North at all.

regards P


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#2 User is offline   HardVector 

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Posted 2019-June-25, 00:02

This looks like a normal 3c bid. There is one thing that may cause you to do something different, however. You are 3rd seat and your partner has passed. So here is what you know, your side has about 17 hcp max and your RHO has passed as well. That usually means that your LHO has a moose and is getting ready to make some noise. 3c isn't going to shut them up. In these cases I usually overbid "normal" by 1 and consider overbidding by 2. There was one time at favorable vulnerability that I trotted out a 3c opener after it went p-p with xx xxxx Jxx QTxx. I don't recommend doing it too often, but on that day, it was a weak field and happened to work out when it went 3s-p-p-p, making 5.
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#3 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2019-June-25, 00:16

You have a completely bog std 3c opening. 3rd chair NV, some frisky players might try 4c. 5c is rather too much IMO. The idea when preempting is to bid high enough to give opponents problems, but not so high that they can basically close their eyes, double, pass it out, and be profitable in the long run.

Opening 1c would be nuts, it gives the opponents no problems and will lead to partner doubling them in cold contracts too often. It would probably be better to psyche completely and open 1s or 1nt.

Once you decide on a preempt, it is basic bridge principles that this is your final decision. You never bid again unless partner bids a new suit, forcing below game.The preemptor doesn't decide when to stop competing; his partner does. The partner has a much better idea of how many you are making (basically adding his cover cards to your expected # of provided trump tricks), so can decide whether sacrificing is likely to be successful or not. You have no idea how many tricks partner will provide, so bidding again makes no sense when you have already described your own hand with such a high degree of precision (~6 trick with clubs as trumps).



Sacrificing here would have been not good (but not as bad at IMPS as at MPs), since 5c-x -3 is -500 while 4s is only +450. At IMPS you generally want to have more margin for saves (favorable vulnerability, or think down only 1), because going for say -300 is only a minor triumph (+3-4 imps) vs 4s making, while if 4s was going down (phantom sac) it's much worse (-8 imps). At MPs you can be much more frisky since -500 saves a whole board vs -620. At IMPS you need to be more sure you are really profiting with a save.

DO NOT assume 5c -3 undoubled is a good achievable normal result when playing against non-robots. This doesn't happen when playing vs people who are any good at all. It might be possible to get away with it against robots at the current time, but that breeds bad habits if you ever think you will venture to play vs good human competition, or if the robots eventually improve and don't allow humans to get away with such ridiculousness.
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#4 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2019-June-25, 01:13

Take a look at the potential of this hand in terms of (1) playing strength and (2) defensive strength. You have six absolutely cast-iron tricks playing in clubs and will almost certainly contribute no tricks in defence. It is this very large disparity between the playing potential and defensive potential which makes the hand so attractive for a preempt - it absolutely screams out that you should preempt as far as you dare.

So what do you bid? I think that 1 is silly. It mis-describes the hand to partner, suggesting an opening hand and at least a bit of defence). Partner may make a wrong decision later in the auction, choosing to defend rather than bid on. Opening 3 would be a normal choice in first or second seat, since it keeps 3NT as an option. But since partner is a passed hand, there is no reason to think that partner will have the necessary stops and entries to make 3NT work.

In third seat, my clear preference would be a 4 bid non-vulnerable, leaving as little room as possible for opponents to find their best fit. I might even venture 4 vulnerable - the solid suit also makes it more difficult for opponents to judge to double. I think that 5 is too much at any vulnerability on a seven-card suit.
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#5 User is offline   FelicityR 

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Posted 2019-June-25, 03:39

In third seat at this vulnerability I would open 4. 3 is acceptable too, but makes it easier for the opponents to find a fit.

Partner is a passed hand so you're not going to "pre-empt" partner, only the opponents. With QJTxxx and little else I'd be opening 3 here.

The opponents have little way of knowing of whether they should double for penalties, bid game or bid slam, and taking away their room to manoeuvre would be my first priority.
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#6 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2019-June-25, 05:51

thx everyone
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#7 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2019-June-25, 09:07

All replies have some good advice.

Bidding again after preempting is often referred to as a "fielder's choice". You give the opponent's a choice whether to double you or bid on. That usually isn't good, so should be avoided.

Keep in mind that preempting is intended to make it as difficult for the opponent's to bid. So, normally you should go as high as you are willing to go with your initial preemptive bid or raise of a preempt as preemptor's partner. The idea is to give the opponent's the next tough decision.
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#8 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2019-July-08, 05:52

Hi,

you are in 3rd seat, being green, they could be red, but it does not
change a lot. In this situation you can do a lot (*).

I would not open 1C, I dont believe in 3rd seat weak 1 level openings,
but if you do it, than at least go for a major suit opening, minor suit
opening achieves nothing.
If you want to go funny, you could try a strong NT opening, this is a lot
better than 1C.

I would open 4C, if this is a 3C opening for you in 1st and 2nd position,
than preempting 1 level higher is not the worst guideline in 3rd.
(*) If they are red, you can get a bit more frisky, i.e. +2, but 5 level preempts
are pretty dangerous, and they dont give the opponents a lot of room to hang
themself, so they should be used with caution.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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