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2M structure

#1 User is offline   straube 

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Posted 2019-May-25, 10:33

2S-6-11, 6S, 0-3H

.....2N-GF ask, usually slamming
..........3C-bal or clubs
...............3D-ask
....................3H-bal
....................3S-6124
....................3N-6214
....................4C-6/5
..........3D-diamonds
...............3H-ask
....................3S-6142
....................3N-6241
....................4C-6/5
..........3H-6133
..........3S-6313
..........3N-6331
.....3C-2+S, asks
..........3D-6-7
..........3H-8-9
..........3S-10-11
..........3N-AKQxxx
.....3D-hearts
.....3H-singleton S but COG, inv
..........3S-min
..........3N-max
..........4S-max, self-sufficient suit
.....3S-blocking
.....3N-to play
.....splinters

For hearts, thinking....
.....2S-spades, forcing
.....2N-same as for 2S
.....3C-same as for 2S
.....3D-COG, singleton
.....3H-blocking
.....3N-tp
.....splinters

After pattern, resolve QPs and then PCB

With 8+ we open 1M with 6M/4OM. I guess we pass with 6-7 and 6M/4OM? We're using double-barreled invites a la IMprecision so I'm not sure about this.

Also not sure how many hearts or what strength 2S-3D should promise.

One thing I like is breaking the strengths between min, medium and max when responder has a fit and letting opener know in case there is competition. I also like COG information when responder has a singleton.

Suggestions or comments?
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#2 User is offline   Kungsgeten 

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Posted 2019-May-26, 14:40

I think the relays over 2M-2NT looks pretty nice. It seems though that the 6421 patterns would have to include 6430 too? The COG singleton bid may be a winner, even though I haven't seen it before.

I personally think that too much space goes into the GF shape relays, and not enough into the invites. When slammish I'm thinking that a natural approach may be better, where opener gets to appreciate their hand (min or max, along with shape). Then you could also use the relay for game invitational hands. It could also make it easier in case you want to explore if you should play 3NT or 4M. The main upside I see to full shape relays, in this auction, is if you want to play another suit instead of the one that is opened.

Here's a (somewhat tweaked) structure popular in Sweden. Here 2NT is bid with both slam interested hands and game invites.

2S-2NT;
3C = Any minimum.
3D = Extras, no shortness (maybe singleton honour, depending on how you normally treat those hands).
3H = Extras, singleton club.
3S = Extras, singleton diamond.
3NT = Extras, singleton heart.
4X = Void (after 2H-2NT, 4H is void spades).

A clear downside from your suggested method is that this one doesn't cover 6-4 hands or 6-5 hands.

One thing I like is that you can bid this way with invites which may search for a particular kind of fit (perhaps only interested in game if opener has a singleton). It allows to stop in 3M even though opener has extras (when holding no shortness):

2S-2NT; 3C (any min)
3D = Asks shortness.
...3H = No shortness. Now 3S is a sign-off, and 3NT to suggestion to play.
...3S = Short clubs.
...3NT = Short diamonds.
...4X = Short hearts, control showing.
3S = Sign-off.
3NT = Suggestion to play.

2S-2NT; 3D (extras, no shortness)
3S = Sign-off.
3NT = Suggestion to play.

So over 2S a response structure could look like this:

2S--
2NT = INV+ with some kind of fit.
3C = INV+ with hearts.
...3D = At least Jx fit. Now 3H invites, 3S slammish and sets hearts.
...3H = Bad heart fit.
...3S = Bad heart fit, good spade suit.
...3NT = Solid spades?
3D = GF with a minor (3H asks, while 3S is a self-sufficient suit).
3H = COG with singleton (or you could play it as GF with clubs, while 3D being natural GF).
3S+ = Standard.
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#3 User is offline   straube 

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Posted 2019-May-26, 21:22

Hi Kunsgeten. Thanks for your reply.

Yes, I was thinking that 6421 would be an approximate shape which would also handle 6430, but I'm thinking to add 6520 and 7420 as well. I would only go to the 4-level then with 6511, 6610 or 7510. So showing a 6421 would communicate a second suit and tolerance for a third; this might help me locate 6-2 fits in the other major or (more rarely) a minor suit slam.

I agree that slam hands in another strain are very rare; Adam looked at 100 hands once and there was only 1 hand that belonged in 6m. The GF relay might help me find some, but the heavy majority of slams are in opener's major. Still, I like to reuse as much machinery as possible and using QPs and PCB might help get to 6M as well. Or if we're just mildly invitational for slam we could ask strength/show tolerance and then cue bid or RKC.

I like that your structure saves a step for heart auctions (after a 2S open). I don't really follow wanting to be in game if opener has shortness vs not. I guess I would want to know which shortness and if I can't learn that before 3M has passed then it's likely to help the opponents more than us (if we're only interested in game).

Yeah, I kind of like splitting singleton vs fit support because it's likely to help us get to the right game. I could use some input here but the basic idea would be to avoid losing two or more tricks to minor honors. This could also be a slamming tool, checking on the solidity of opener's suit.

I could make the structure much more complicated but memory load is important. For example, it doesn't really make sense to rebid 3N with AKQxxx. I'm switching a few things though. For 2S

2N-GF relay
.....3C-bal or diamonds
..........3D-asks
...............3H-bal
...............3S-6142
...............3N-6241
...............4C-6151
.....3D-clubs
..........3H-asks
...............3S-6124
...............3N-6214
...............4C-6115
.....3H-6133
.....3S-6313
.....3N-6331

3C-size ask, 2+ fit
.....3D-6-7
.....3H-8-9
.....3S-10-11
.....3N-AKQxxx

3D-hearts (GF with 5 of GI with 6?), I could use help here
.....3H-other
.....3S-min, self-sufficient suit
.....3N-max
.....4H-fit
.....3S-max, self-sufficient suit

3H-inv+ with singleton, COG
.....3S-min
..........3N-COG
...............4S-good suit
.....3N-max
.....4S-max, good suit

3S-blocking

3N-to play, very seldom removed

splinters
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#4 User is offline   straube 

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Posted 2019-May-27, 01:12

Maybe the singleton raise should be a singleton honor?

Adam, what do you do with 6M4OM and 6-7 hcps? Pass these?
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#5 User is offline   awm 

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Posted 2019-May-27, 01:56

View Poststraube, on 2019-May-27, 01:12, said:

Maybe the singleton raise should be a singleton honor?

Adam, what do you do with 6M4OM and 6-7 hcps? Pass these?


We don’t open 1M. Pass and 2M are both possible, there’s not really a rule but for me it depends on suit quality and sonewhat on position (more likely to pass in 2nd than in 1st/3rd).
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
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#6 User is offline   straube 

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Posted 2019-May-27, 03:57

ok. Thanks.
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#7 User is offline   straube 

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Posted 2019-May-27, 11:02

I've been looking at hands and finding that choice of games is pretty important. So I'm making 3M-1 a small singleton and 3C is handling fitting hands or honor singleton (J or better). After opener shows strength we have room for COG.

2N-GF relay
.....3C-bal or diamonds
..........3D-asks
...............3H-bal
...............3S-6142
...............3N-6241
...............4C-6151
.....3D-clubs
..........3H-asks
...............3S-6124
...............3N-6214
...............4C-6115
.....3H-6133
.....3S-6313
.....3N-6331

3C-size ask, 2+ fit or singleton honor (J or better)
.....3D-6-7
..........3N-COG
.....3H-8-9
.....3S-10-11
.....3N-AKQxxx

3D-hearts (GF with 5 of GI with 6?), I could use help here
.....3H-2-fit, forcing!
.....3S-min, short heart
.....3N-max, short heart
.....4H-fit

3H-inv+ with small singleton, COG
.....3S-min
..........3N-COG
...............4S-good suit
.....3N-max
.....4S-max, good suit

3S-blocking

3N-to play, very seldom removed

splinters
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