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Best Bid at Rubber, MPs or IMPs

#21 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2019-May-23, 01:24

View Postnekthen, on 2019-May-22, 12:46, said:

At rubber bridge I would pass. They have the rubber in the bag. Let it go and hope to get your money back on the next rubber.


I understand the point that you are making and if the opponents would stop quietly in 4M, I would tend to agree.

But, last time I looked, vulnerable slams and even grand slams can add up to a large financial cost at rubber bridge. We don't seem to have much in the way of defensive strength - although there is some possibility that bad breaks might come as an unpleasant surprise to the opponents. I would expect that, given an uncontested auction, the opponents will judge well whether to play in four, six or seven. If we rob them of space, they will find it less easy to judge whether to push for a slam.

But if I choose to compete with 4 and the opponents bid their major-suit game I will not push further at this form of scoring.
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#22 User is offline   ray_p 

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Posted 2019-May-23, 01:58

Grow up MsJennifer! As you mention, you're not aware how rubber bridge changes things.

With 40 below, a GF is only forcing to 2H, not 3NT. (so could be light in the way a 4th seat bid is light - for example a south with 19 distributional points would not want partner to pass a 1M bid with 5 points, so could choose 2C to investigate partners hand with the intention to pass when a satisfactory contract is reached)

Here I would read 2C it as promising at least 7 1/2 tricks, not necessarily more. You're right in that it creates ambiguity, but partner should be smart enough to take this into account
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#23 User is online   kenberg 

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Posted 2019-May-23, 09:54

The OP says "This distributional hand was dealt to my partner". It doesn't say "dealt by my partner" and the diagram shows S as starting the auction. So I assume S dealt the shown hand to E.

This was rubber bridge and NS have a 40 partscore.

It would be good to know how this might alter the NS bidding. For example, is 2C - 2D - 2S - Pass a possible auction for them? 2S is a game contract.

I think I might well just bid 3C. Sure they are going to make game in some major, or at least I assume so. But they not be clear themselves on exactly how much strength is needed for a 2C opener with 40 on. And it's said that the 2C opener is known to open light. So I think I bid 3C and let them try to sort out who has how much strength.

At matchpoints, and maybe at imps, I would just bid 5C over 2D.
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#24 User is offline   miamijd 

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Posted 2019-May-23, 09:55

View Postnekthen, on 2019-May-22, 17:36, said:

imho I do not think you understand rubber bridge. Assume you go down in 5c, even undoubled. thats another 100 invested in this rubber. Opps are still game and 40 and massive favourites to win a 2 game rubber. (I am assuming this is old school rubber not chicago)
Rubber bridge is not about doing the best you can on one hand. It is about the series of hands that make up the rubber.

The other problem with bidding on this hand, at any form of scoring, is that you are very unlikely to win the auction, in which case you may well be pointing declarer towards the right path to make his contract

Last night I played in 3N and had to bring in AQT932 opposite K5 to make the contract. I played the K and finessed for the J. RHO had bid 2N for the minors. Without that bid I would have played for the drop and gone down


I understand it fine. Just haven't played it in 30 years b/c I find it boring.

You can't simply consider what you think might be the most likely result and then ask whether that is worth it. There are a ton of possibilities, and you come out way ahead on most of them.

Going -100 for down one doubled on this hand would be stupendous in rubber bridge. The alternative is -820 for letting the opponents make game in a major.

Why do you think this is the opponents' hand? With 40 on and South an overbidder, God knows what he has for 2C. Maybe just a pile of H or S. Perhaps you can actually make 5C (not out of the question at all).

Why do you think the opponents are going to win the rubber the next hand? Perhaps you will score game on the next hand.

Perhaps you'll be able to defeat 5M (declarer is getting very bad breaks).

Perhaps you'll prevent losing a 1000 or 1500 slam bonus.

Perhaps a lot of things, most of which are very good for you.

Cheers,
mike
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#25 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2019-May-23, 09:56

View Postray_p, on 2019-May-23, 01:58, said:

Grow up MsJennifer! As you mention, you're not aware how rubber bridge changes things.

With 40 below, a GF is only forcing to 2H, not 3NT. (so could be light in the way a 4th seat bid is light - for example a south with 19 distributional points would not want partner to pass a 1M bid with 5 points, so could choose 2C to investigate partners hand with the intention to pass when a satisfactory contract is reached)

Here I would read 2C it as promising at least 7 1/2 tricks, not necessarily more. You're right in that it creates ambiguity, but partner should be smart enough to take this into account

Sir thanks for your gracious and kind order ASKING me to grow up.I congratulate and wish you all the best in your ELASTIC and most highly advanced strategic enlightening bids in good old rubber bridge.And just by the way the OP clearly shows that the 2C bid was made in the FIRST SEAT.
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#26 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2019-May-23, 11:09

View Postmsjennifer, on 2019-May-23, 09:56, said:

And just by the way the OP clearly shows that the 2C bid was made in the FIRST SEAT.


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#27 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2019-May-24, 10:24

Rubber bridge is an odd mixture of aggression and safety. Going for numbers is not advised. Slight overbidding - expecting less than perfect defense - usually works. Knowing your opponents is priceless.

All that said, I would bid 4C only, and depending on opponents that may well be my limit. When you hold unbalanced length, quite often the hand play better in the long suit - a 7-1 fit can play better than a 5-3.

PS: This hand looks like the one defended by Wolfe/Hamman against Cohen/Bergen at imps. Bergen landed in 5D doubled and went for -800 against spectacular defense by Hamman.
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#28 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2019-May-25, 01:41

View PostWinstonm, on 2019-May-24, 10:24, said:

Rubber bridge is an odd mixture of aggression and safety. Going for numbers is not advised. Slight overbidding - expecting less than perfect defense - usually works. Knowing your opponents is priceless.

All that said, I would bid 4C only, and depending on opponents that may well be my limit. When you hold unbalanced length, quite often the hand play better in the long suit - a 7-1 fit can play better than a 5-3.

PS: This hand looks like the one defended by Wolfe/Hamman against Cohen/Bergen at imps. Bergen landed in 5D doubled and went for -800 against spectacular defense by Hamman.

OH NO! Then I PASS.
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#29 User is online   rmnka447 

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Posted 2019-May-26, 22:13

At MPs and IMPs, I'm bidding 5 and let them try to sort out which major to bid.

At rubber bridge, I'd try 4 . The key is to make them play up a level or 2 from comfortably making a part score to win the rubber. But then again you don't want to get set for much -- since going set still doesn't the below the line score and they are likely to still win the rubber. (They'll still have 40 on below the line toward game if you are set.)

4 is likely set only one with one useful card in partner's hand. OTOH, they have to bid game in a major to finish the rubber on this hand. With partner's hand still unlimited, any way you can push the opponent's up might be useful.
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#30 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2019-May-28, 09:49

View Postmsjennifer, on 2019-May-25, 01:41, said:

OH NO! Then I PASS.


Then you lose.
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#31 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2019-May-29, 02:00

What is the rubber equity of being game + 40? In other words, how many points is it worth preventing them from winning the rubber now? Maybe they are 65% favourites to win this rubber? If so, they are up 65% of 700, appoximately 450, and anything down more than 250 + their contract value is a only a good result if it's an advance safe against their slam. In other words, if we figure they won't bid slam, we shouldn't be saving for 500.

I've only played rubber bridge when I'd just started to learn bridge so really I have no idea. But still - it seems too wimpish to sell out below the 5-level. We might just be down one, we might push them to 5M-1, and -300 versus their +120/150 plus rubber bons is still a good investment.
So for me it's between the scientific route (4C followed by 4N - this seems clearly better than the plan 3C->4N as the latter leaves more room for slam exploration), or just bashing 5C (who knows? I might be scoring up 5CX if partner turns up with an ace and LHO is happy to take the money with his two-suiter, instead of guessing the strain at the 5-level or forcing to the 6-level).
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