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Boards played wrong orientation in a Howell

#1 User is offline   portia2 

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Posted 2019-May-08, 07:26

What happens when a set of 3 boards are played in the wrong orientation, using a Howell movement. Also,if there is a penalty, who receives it, the stationary pair who have failed to realise they should move to E/W, or both pairs? Many thanks
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#2 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2019-May-08, 07:48

View Postportia2, on 2019-May-08, 07:26, said:

What happens when a set of 3 boards are played in the wrong orientation, using a Howell movement. Also,if there is a penalty, who receives it, the stationary pair who have failed to realise they should move to E/W, or both pairs? Many thanks


If there is a stationary pair, I would just give them a warning if they are not serial offenders.
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#3 User is offline   portia2 

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Posted 2019-May-08, 07:54

And are the boards scored as played, even though played in the wrong orientation?
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#4 User is online   blackshoe 

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Posted 2019-May-08, 08:50

Yes. You'll have to change the orientation of the pairs in the scoring program. Note that the pairs should move according to the instructions for that assuming they sat in the correct seats. IOW, if they were supposed to sit NS, but actually sat EW, they follow the moving instructions for NS.
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#5 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2019-May-08, 09:22

This kind of mistake happens all the time in Howell movements, although electronic scoring devices that display the names of the players with the compass directions should reduce it. Except for the pair that arrow switches every round or two, I would rarely penalize. The impact is relatively minor, and it's easy to correct in the scoring program.

#6 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-May-08, 14:39

View Postportia2, on 2019-May-08, 07:26, said:

What happens when a set of 3 boards are played in the wrong orientation, using a Howell movement.


I find it hard to imagine how this could happen, as you state it. Do you mean that NS sat in EW and vice versa?
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#7 User is offline   pran 

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Posted 2019-May-08, 16:08

View Postpescetom, on 2019-May-08, 14:39, said:

I find it hard to imagine how this could happen, as you state it. Do you mean that NS sat in EW and vice versa?

That is one way it can happen, and it is not uncommon.
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#8 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-May-09, 03:22

View Postpran, on 2019-May-08, 16:08, said:

That is one way it can happen, and it is not uncommon.

Reading the OP more carefully, I now see that it already explains what happened - a pair correctly stayed at the table but failed to change direction and the incoming pair just sat down without checking.
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#9 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2019-May-09, 08:54

View Postpescetom, on 2019-May-09, 03:22, said:

Reading the OP more carefully, I now see that it already explains what happened - a pair correctly stayed at the table but failed to change direction and the incoming pair just sat down without checking.

Which is quite common in Howell movements.

The 7-table movement we played this week at our club has 6 pairs that stay at the same table, and 5 of them have arrow switches at different times during the movement. Since the switches are different for each table, the director can't make a general announcement that everyone should switch now. We have table mats that say which direction everyone should be sitting each round, but players have to check them carefully.

As I mentioned before, electronic scoring devices help, but we had a technical failure this week and had to revert to paper travellers.

Many clubs also give out printed movement guides to each pair at the beginning of the session, but our club doesn't have a printer on site, so we can't print out the customized guides.

With all these limitations, we're quite forgiving of mistakes.

#10 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-May-09, 09:44

View Postbarmar, on 2019-May-09, 08:54, said:

Many clubs also give out printed movement guides to each pair at the beginning of the session, but our club doesn't have a printer on site, so we can't print out the customized guides.

With all these limitations, we're quite forgiving of mistakes.


The non-electronic guide scheme I like best is when there is a stationary card for each table which not only lists which pairs should be where in which round but clearly states at the bottom something like "NS stay here but become EW; EW go to table 6 in NS". Even the dumbest players will get this. Unless of course your movements are not independent of round and pair.
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#11 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2019-May-09, 13:13

View Postbarmar, on 2019-May-09, 08:54, said:

Which is quite common in Howell movements.

The 7-table movement we played this week at our club has 6 pairs that stay at the same table, and 5 of them have arrow switches at different times during the movement. Since the switches are different for each table, the director can't make a general announcement that everyone should switch now. We have table mats that say which direction everyone should be sitting each round, but players have to check them carefully.

As I mentioned before, electronic scoring devices help, but we had a technical failure this week and had to revert to paper travellers.

Many clubs also give out printed movement guides to each pair at the beginning of the session, but our club doesn't have a printer on site, so we can't print out the customized guides.

With all these limitations, we're quite forgiving of mistakes.


I find it hard to understand this movement. Anyway why not play a full Howell with 7 tables?
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#12 User is online   blackshoe 

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Posted 2019-May-09, 14:56

View PostVampyr, on 2019-May-09, 13:13, said:

I find it hard to understand this movement. Anyway why not play a full Howell with 7 tables?

Because he has twelve pairs that "have to" be stationary. :rolleyes:
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#13 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-May-09, 15:46

View Postblackshoe, on 2019-May-09, 14:56, said:

Because he has twelve pairs that "have to" be stationary. :rolleyes:


I gathered six, but even so it is an eye opener. We have one pair that is bona fide (blind player) and one borderline (limited mobility, but still manages to slip outside to smoke between rounds). Plus another two or three who somehow always manage to end up stationary at Mitchell. :huh:
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#14 User is offline   weejonnie 

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Posted 2019-May-09, 17:13

The only real downside to a failure to arrowswitch is that the variation of the level of competition between the pairs increases, thus reducing the fairness of the movement.
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#15 User is online   blackshoe 

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Posted 2019-May-09, 22:41

View Postpescetom, on 2019-May-09, 15:46, said:

I gathered six, but even so it is an eye opener. We have one pair that is bona fide (blind player) and one borderline (limited mobility, but still manages to slip outside to smoke between rounds). Plus another two or three who somehow always manage to end up stationary at Mitchell. :huh:

I usually "end up stationary" in a Mitchell -- if I get there early enough. If the director asks us to sit EW, we do. I don't have a problem with that, except when he asks us to do that over three or four consecutive days. I think he does that because he knows we won't give him a hard time, though on day three it is tempting. I have commented, mildly, on the unfairness of that, after the session, once or twice. That works for a while. B-)

We haven't - yet - reached the point where every available NS is always taken by people who insist they need to be stationary. Usually it's about half, I think.
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#16 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2019-May-10, 08:21

View Postpescetom, on 2019-May-09, 09:44, said:

The non-electronic guide scheme I like best is when there is a stationary card for each table which not only lists which pairs should be where in which round but clearly states at the bottom something like "NS stay here but become EW; EW go to table 6 in NS". Even the dumbest players will get this. Unless of course your movements are not independent of round and pair.

Because of the arrow switches, the direction you sit at the next table depends on the round.

#17 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2019-May-10, 08:33

View PostVampyr, on 2019-May-09, 13:13, said:

I find it hard to understand this movement. Anyway why not play a full Howell with 7 tables?

A full Howell for 14 pairs requires 13 rounds, so we'd have to play 26 boards. Our club games are just 24 boards, so we use a 3/4 Howell.

Our club is relatively young (I think only 4-6 of the regulars are 70+, and we've recently gotten an influx of college students), we don't have any pairs who need to be stationary.

#18 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2019-May-10, 11:28

View Postbarmar, on 2019-May-10, 08:33, said:

A full Howell for 14 pairs requires 13 rounds, so we'd have to play 26 boards. Our club games are just 24 boards, so we use a 3/4 Howell.

Our club is relatively young (I think only 4-6 of the regulars are 70+, and we've recently gotten an influx of college students), we don't have any pairs who need to be stationary.


But don’t you have to have 3-board rounds for this? I thought that with normal Howell movements it was OK to omit the last round. Perhaps I am wrong about this.
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#19 User is offline   pran 

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Posted 2019-May-10, 15:16

View PostVampyr, on 2019-May-10, 11:28, said:

But don’t you have to have 3-board rounds for this? I thought that with normal Howell movements it was OK to omit the last round. Perhaps I am wrong about this.

All 26 scheduled boards are in use at some table during the event so you cannot just reduce the event by omitting the last round.

Instead you use what is known as "Reduced Howell", in this case with two stationary pairs and the other 12 pairs moving through 12 rounds.
One of the stationary pairs must then arrow-switch in certain rounds for best possible balance.
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#20 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2019-May-10, 16:48

View Postpran, on 2019-May-10, 15:16, said:

All 26 scheduled boards are in use at some table during the event so you cannot just reduce the event by omitting the last round.

Instead you use what is known as "Reduced Howell", in this case with two stationary pairs and the other 12 pairs moving through 12 rounds.
One of the stationary pairs must then arrow-switch in certain rounds for best possible balance.


OK. I thought it was something like that, but all I knew was that you could play fewer rounds, and miss only one pair.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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